Hebrews 6:4-6

A verse was brought to my attention to refute my stance that a true believer can not lose his salvation. MikeT at Code Monkey Ramblings pointed out that Hebrews 6:4-6 seems to indicate that it is possible to "fall away" from the faith.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."
-Hebrews 6:4-6

This would not mark the first time I've heard this case. I think there are two things that are very important to remember when trying to discern this passage:

1. We must interpret the verses in context with the surrounding verses.
When I read the rest of chapter 6, it seems very obvious to me that Paul is warning the church that there will be false converts within the church. These are people who never leave behind "the elementary teachings about Christ" and go on to maturity. In the verses immediately following our text, Paul talks about two lands receiving rain. The first produced a useful crop, but the second produced thorns and thistles. Yet they both received the same rain.
In the same way, before I was a true beleiver, I received the Holy Spirit's teaching, I felt his presence, and I was granted a small taste of the gift. Yet if I had died in my sins, all those feelings and teachings would have meant nothing. I would have been burned up, just like the land that produced only thorns and thissles.

2. We must interperet the verses in context with the whole Bible.
As with any theology, we can make the Bible say nearly anything we want, if we try hard enough. However, when we read a passage that seems to state something contrary to a clear theme of the Bible, we must look into it. While this passage seems like it might be saying that it is possible to lose ones salvation, verses like Ephesians 1:13-14, John 10:27-29, 1 Peter 1:23, Ephesians 4:30, Philippians 1:6, Philippians 2:12-13, 1 Peter 2:5, Ephesians 2:20-22, and 2 John 1:2 tell us that it is not possible. (I could give you about fifteen more if you'd like.)
If we truly beleive that the Bible is 100% true and does not contradict itself, then Hebrews 6:4-6 must mean something else. I have provided above what I beleive it truly means.

See the post entitle Eternal Security to learn more.

~Timm

Scripture Twisters: 1 Peter 3:19-20

"through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,"
-1 Peter 3:19-20

A preacher, (who shall remain nameless,) said that this meant that when Jesus preached to the spirits in prison, eight of them heard the gospel message and were saved. He used this verse to justify his belief that those who dies in unbelief will be given a second chance to "accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior."

Let's take a more logical approach to the passage.

First of all, can anyone really make the argument that souls who were subjected to thousands of years of pain and torment would really not jump at the chance to get out of hades? Only eight believed at that point. I would think that once you are in Hell, you are no longer in disbeleif. That's just an assumption though.

Let's look at who the eight people who were saved were. The passage says, "In it only a few people...were saved.." What is "it?" there is only one object mentioned in this passage; the ark. So in the ark only a few were saved. How many people were in the ark? Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives. That equals EIGHT. Actually, the mentioning of the eight being saved by water is a transition to the next point. In verse 21, it states, "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him."

No Mr. un-named pastor, those who are suffering in Hell are not given another chance. Jesus very clearly states that Hell is for an eternity. Please stop using the word of God to spread false doctrines, and mis-lead the Church.

~Timm

The Bridge

A portion from an article written by John Piper:

"There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, 'Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.'"
-Luke 13:1-5

Jesus implies that those who brought him this news thought he would say that those who died, deserved to die, and that those who didn't die did not deserve to die. That is not what he said. He said, everyone deserves to die. And if you and I don't repent, we too will perish. This is a stunning response. It only makes sense from a view of reality that is radically oriented on God.

All of us have sinned against God, not just against man. This is an outrage ten thousand times worse than the collapse of the 35W bridge. That any human is breathing at this minute on this planet is sheer mercy from God. God makes the sun rise and the rain fall on those who do not treasure him above all else. He causes the heart to beat and the lungs to work for millions of people who deserve his wrath. This a view of reality that desperately needs to be taught in our churches, so that we are prepared for the calamities of the world.

The meaning of the collapse of this bridge is that John Piper is a sinner and should repent or forfeit his life for ever. That means I should turn from the silly preoccupations of my life and focus my mind's attention and my heart's affection on God and embrace Jesus Christ as my only hope for the forgiveness of my sins and for the hope of eternal life. That is God's message in the collapse of this bridge. That is his most merciful message: there is still time to turn from sin and unbelief and destruction for those of us who live. If we could see the eternal calamity from which he is offering escape we would hear this as the most precious message in the world.
(Full Article)

I'm Off!!

Tabatha and I are off for a weekend getaway to celebrate our 7th anniversary. Should be fun. Everybody have a good weekend.

~Timm

More Rapture Talk

Referring back to the post entitled Rapture Delusions.

Geppy writes:

"I was raised a fundamental Christian, believing in the rapture and preaching it to others. Whereas it provides a good way to "scare" others to salvation, I no longer see it as biblical."
"All of the passages that were taught to support the rapture all of a sudden said the opposite."

Thanks for the friendly reminder via Email geppy. Between my non-desk job and the fact that I don't have a computer at home right now, keeping up with the blogging world is a constant struggle.

I agree. I would love to believe in a pre-trib rapture as it is a very convenient view, however I cannot find the scripture to support it. The Bible speaks of a first and second coming of Jesus. According to the pre-trib rapture, Jesus still has to come a second and third time.

All the scripture passages the pre-tribers give seem to have to be taken out of context in order to say what they want them to say. This is a prime example, (to me,) of making the bible validate an existing theology rather than letting the scriptures for your theology for you.

Refer to the original post for a more complete argument.

I'm sure I'll get ripped for this one. I'm sure Secret Rapture will be around too.

~Timm